Comments on The Occasional Blogger: Losing My Religion

I'm with you, 100%

2006-09-04T21:32:00.000+03:00

I'm with you, 100%

MJ, you have touched on a number of questions that...

2006-09-04T07:51:00.000+03:00

MJ, you have touched on a number of questions that cropped up in my own head over the years. One is that religion, in general, has been used and abused by those seeking power. It has been distorted and altered to benefit specific groups of people. The primary group to distor faith, IMHO, has always been man (and I mean the general sex, not all humans). A student of mine, raised in Saudi but lived in Dubai said one day, "I think religion always works out to the man's advantage." I tend to agree, and we're not just talking about Islam.

The other point you touched on lack of questioning among many Muslims. I wondered for a long time if the culture influenced the religion, and encouraged people to accept without questioning, or if the religion discouraged it questioning. Which came first? The chicken or the egg? I've been told by some that the Quran does encourage one to think, and not accept without giving it thought.

Just found your blog tonight, and like what I'm reading!

Yasmina- "do you really think thats at all fair? a...

2006-05-24T11:09:00.000+03:00

Yasmina- "do you really think thats at all fair? and he send me your link saying that you giving up on islam, which i truly don't think is true, i think your expressing your concerns."

What a jerk! First of all, he was an asshole to insult you and your beliefs. That is no way to debate or try to exchange views.

Secondly, you are absolutely right. Of course I didn't mean I'm giving up on Islam. My whole point was to express how frustrated I am with the fuckers who are ruining its reputation and are speaking the loudest in the name of Islam- the same people who I believe God is reserving a special place for them in HELL.

Cheers :)

i totally understand where you are coming from mum...

2006-05-23T14:29:00.000+03:00

i totally understand where you are coming from mumbo, i live in england and the culture i have grown up in taught to speak my mind, but so many more people than you think who are not muslims believe that islam is not about violence because they know how effective the media is.
i found a site made by a young man (and found it totally accidently) who was being rude and verbally abused me for trying to defend my religion and explain that it was not how it is seen. he never listened but instead he threw more abuse at me. he was a christian. i have never met a christian as ignorant as him. so to conclude mumbo islam has its ignorant people, so does christianity, its not a religion thing, its a trait in people. i never forced anyone who does want to believe in islam to believe in it, but at the same time i did not insult it the this guy isulted our religion, do you really think thats at all fair? and he send me your link saying that you giving up on islam, which i truly don't think is true, i think your expressing your concerns.
i hope i get sane respone for once. to know there is still some people willing to listen.

Eva, I'm glad you understand.

2006-04-19T21:48:00.000+02:00

Eva, I'm glad you understand.

Mumbo jumbo wrote:"Was I gonna wait outside and ho...

2006-04-19T04:31:00.000+02:00

Mumbo jumbo wrote:

"Was I gonna wait outside and hound the idiot conducting the sermon? Suppose I did, if he didn't have enough sense in his little mind to think that what he was preaching may be wrong, do you think he was going to listen to a non-veiled 'kafra'?"

Of course not! I know that as a woman you carry no weight with those people. My remark was meant in general.

However, this is the only way a reform will happen. People must speak out or at least quit worshipping in mosques where they hear this kind of speech.

I admit that I know little about the way things are done in Islam but it seems to me that attendance matters to the authorities. If enough people do let it to be known that they do not attend because they don't want to hear violent and demeaning sermons then things may begin to change.

Am I too naive to suggest that?

Garfield, I'm glad to hear that you listened to yo...

2006-04-18T11:21:00.000+02:00

Garfield, I'm glad to hear that you listened to your heart.

Egypeter- glad to see you back. You're a sweet guy with a kind heart.

Hey there, Forsoothsayer, yes, they are all bahayem.

Scorekeeper, it's not fair to generalize in that sense. yes, I agree, the west definitely gives aid much more than any Arab country, but some people do help some causes. I know that Saudi Arabia (public and private figures) did donate to Tsunami victims (I don't know what the total amount was), but let's give credit where some is due. Not every Muslim is a bad guy.

Maggie 45, eva, bent ell neel, dreema: nice to hear from you all.

I just want to clarify one point:
Friday prayer is attended by men, not women (which my husband does not attend). I overheard the sermon on the loudspeakers from down the street in my house.

I did want to go over there and object, but here's the scenario:
Was I gonna wait outside and hound the idiot conducting the sermon? Suppose I did, if he didn't have enough sense in his little mind to think that what he was preaching may be wrong, do you think he was going to listen to a non-veiled 'kafra'?

OK- so I go to someone higher in the mosque? Who? Another beheem (cattle)?

You cannot reason with these people. It's an element that does not exist in their minds.

What you can do is spread reason through reasonable people.

How long will it take for the Muslim youth, like y...

2006-04-18T10:09:00.000+02:00

How long will it take for the Muslim youth, like yourself, to speak out to your own culture, in your own language? How many years?

Maybe the Muslim youth of today are just beginning to find their voice. Coordinate their thoughts. Test the waters. Find the confidence. Waiting for the world to change just a little bit before making the leap.

Maybe I am just impatient. I know it will come. Maybe it has to ferment just a little longer.

You ask why no one said a word during the sermon. Why didn't you? If not you, then who?

You are DEFINTELY not alone. I'm Sudanese and beli...

2006-04-18T09:34:00.000+02:00

You are DEFINTELY not alone. I'm Sudanese and believe me, you can count in many more people from there... My father always tells me go to the mosque early during Friday prayers to listen to the Khutba... I always go at the end only when it's time to pray just to avoid the retarded and sick khutba's in the beginning.

It's so good to hear what you have to say. You ar...

2006-04-18T09:20:00.000+02:00

It's so good to hear what you have to say. You are not alone, there's obviously so many who are thinking what you are thinking.

What saddens me however, is the other multitude of young people who are determined to follow the status quo and maintain that "it's not happening! it's not happening!"

Throughout my short blogging life, i have had discussions with a couple of Egyptian Muslim people. Both are obviously good people with a kind heart, but there is a refusal to acknowledge the ugly reality.

I have always maintained that what is worse than insulting someone, is to stand by, cover your eyes and say "nope! couldn't be happening here!!".

Anyhow, sorry to waffle on. I wanted to tell you I am honored and pleased to have found you, and all the others here who commented in support of your post. Thank you and may God always keep your eyes open, your heart kind, and your mind enlightened.

The question is who will be the first to stand up ...

2006-04-18T08:38:00.000+02:00

The question is who will be the first to stand up and tell that preacher, "We don't want to hear words of hate. Get out of our mosque!"

Hi, and thank you. I found you through SandMonkey'...

2006-04-18T06:44:00.000+02:00

Hi, and thank you. I found you through SandMonkey's link, and I'm just so happy to be reading your posts. I'm a 60 year old female, born and raised in the United States, lived in several different parts of this country. I am so grateful for the internet, that allows us to communicate with people from all over the world, and find out just how much we all have in common. Thank you again!!

Everything you say is on the money of course. Exce...

2006-04-18T06:32:00.000+02:00

Everything you say is on the money of course. Except that you discount that the intimidation is mainly working in Europe, sad to say.

An additional point to consider. When the Tsunami hit who do you think the first rescue crew to dig out and seach for survivors was from? ISRAEL......
Ignoring the fact that after this got out 1 of the countries rejected further aid from Israel... bcs the Islamic Organizations publicized this and the gov't had to concede.... I mean better to not be embarrassed (taking help from Jooos) and let people die and suffer rather than do anything you can to save people children and women included.

Do you know of all the aid that was sent what % was from Islamic countries? close to ---- 0% -----!!

Dp you know what hte Islamic countries Egypt and Saudi Arabia are doing about the Genocide in Sudan 2 Million slaughtered and counting? Theypre SUPPORTING the Khartoum regime sponsored Genocide!! and preventing the UN from even commenting on it.

Its beyond just terrorism, voilence and hatred....
You tell me where do you find the public humanity with any Islamic country? or gov't?

Mike

I'm with you too Mumbo. I think slowly but surely ...

2006-04-18T00:17:00.000+02:00

I'm with you too Mumbo. I think slowly but surely we're finding each other.
You are not alone for sure. Most of the people the commented here are out there reading each other's posts and debating, agreeing, and sometimes disagreeing.

I'm also very glad I found you too :-) Come read my blog, maybe you'd find more of your thoughts echoed :-)

Cheers,
AT

Good for you, mumbo. the problem with the middle e...

2006-04-18T00:16:00.000+02:00

Good for you, mumbo. the problem with the middle east as a whole is lack of invidualism and illiteracy. everyone follows the herd and the leaders of the herd are bahayem themselves. everyone who has ever tried to question any religious tenet or cultural custom has been cut down, like the people mentioned by other commentators and like nawal el saadawi and even taha hussein (who was revered until he pubslished something criticizing the chain of hadith that you alluded to). Egypt has long has an authority for ordaining muslim clerics, but in these days any bumbler can unfortunately preach on fridays without having obtained the proper education and certification. as Muslims, you must not only challenge hateful things that you hear, but also ensure that some protest is made against the hatemongerers who preach in mosques. I know that whenever i hear hatred from members of the Christian community I speak out and no one talks hate around me any more. there are a lot of reasonable people in the blogosphere; the problem is the vast majority of everyone else who have never been near a computer or even read a newspaper.

Very interesting read...I've managed to come acros...

2006-04-17T20:29:00.000+02:00

Very interesting read...I've managed to come across several articles today in response to this weekend and the protests and such written by muslims speaking out against the apparent culture of hate within some of the islamic communities.

From watching CNN you'd think that these countries are all terrible and backwards. I thought that perhaps it was a lot hyperbole and propaganda and that perhaps the west is missing something because of a certain political agenda. But if we have writers from all over the middle east repeating the same messages, perhaps it's not as far from the truth as I once thought.

I've begun to read blogger articles more often than regular news now. That is to say that I read the news as reported by a news wire, and then search for blogs for the take on the situation from the "inside".

It isn't only Islam. Christianity has had the same...

2006-04-17T18:54:00.000+02:00

It isn't only Islam. Christianity has had the same problems over the centuries - wars and hatred between sects, contempt for "unbelievers", using believers as cult victims, ignorant and fanatical priests. If things have calmed down a bit since the Enlightenment, this is the result of long and bitter experience. It is also, I think, the result of the slow improvements in the economies of what are now the "rich" countries. Poverty breeds ignorance and extremism.

Thank you for posting this. Keep posting, keep pra...

2006-04-17T18:39:00.000+02:00

Thank you for posting this. Keep posting, keep praying.

There are Muslims in Canada who try to make other Canadians feel guilty when we are shocked or scared by women in our streets dressed head to toe in black, faces covered--symbolic to us of a terrible repression of Muslim women all over the world. We are a tolerant people, but we are being asked to tolerate intolerance.

I take great comfort in Muslim women like you and in the poetry of Rumi.

Mumbo:It's ok, you can always get mushy. It shows...

2006-04-17T18:11:00.000+02:00

Mumbo:

It's ok, you can always get mushy. It shows that you have a good heart!!

Listen, I'm a 31 year old and I promise you that I get teary-eyed when I read about what is happening in Egypt. Not to sound like a total wimp/wuss but these things that happen in Egypt GREATLY affect my heart. I feel so guilty that I live in the lap of luxury compared to so many other of my Coptic (and muslim) brethren. What did I do to deserve to be born and raised in America?? Nothing. My parents made the decision to leave Egypt in the early 70's and I just got lucky.

But I think this has made me really sensitive to the Copt's plight in Egypt. Sometimes I think that there are no muslims out there in Egypt that give a shit and then I talk with people like you, SM, BP, FFE and other like minded bloggers and I do realize that there is a glimmer of hope...however small.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Your response to my comment tinged my heart too :)

Take care mumbo and let's see if we can band all together the voices in Egypt that hate fundementalism!!

God bless you!

You are definitely not alone here. The sad thing i...

2006-04-17T17:52:00.000+02:00

You are definitely not alone here. The sad thing is I've been on both ends of the spectrum.

When I first tried to get to know my religion, I thought "Hey! What better place to do that than at the mosque!". Needless to say, stupid & naïve me was brainwashed. I will spare you the details cause not only are they too horrific to repeat but I fear you will think I'm retarded... which I was to be honest. I didn't feel like a free woman, I felt more like a slave when I followed their beliefs.

Thankfully, I started to use my brain and slowly realised that this was NOT Islam! The Prophet (Peace be upon him) NEVER forced people to be muslims, he NEVER rejoiced when a non-muslim died like what alot of so-called muslims do now-a-days and you bet he'd NEVER EVER encourage suicide bombings, death threats or any barbaric acts as we're seeing all over the news.

Sadly, common sense is no longer en vogue.

Anonymous- I understand your point about the histo...

2006-04-17T17:01:00.000+02:00

Anonymous- I understand your point about the history violence in Islam, it's a point my husband always makes, but it's one I choose to ignore.

I stay connected to God through heart and soul. That's most important for me.

Sandmonkey, yasmina, sugiero and memz- welcome to my blog.

This is exactly how i feel about Islam! I am sick ...

2006-04-17T16:21:00.000+02:00

This is exactly how i feel about Islam! I am sick and tired of it being a social religion vs a personal relationship between me and God!

I like your post and I agree with it and hope ever...

2006-04-17T15:59:00.000+02:00

I like your post and I agree with it and hope every Muslim or religious person's attitude would be the same. However I have to disagree with one major point. The history of Islam is full of violence, built on ghazawat and tribal mentality. I'm not a Muslim and neither am I Christian or a religious person. I have read the alternative history of Islam - the one they don't teach us in school (why do they teach us religion in school to begin with? It only creates more diversion in our society). People like Sayed AlQimny and Farag Fouda have repeatedly pointed this alternative history out - only to be met by a life-ending Azharic death sentence for the second, and a fundmaentalist death threat to the first, ending his career. If your religion says that different people from yourself are kafara and that a person who decides to leave this religion should be killed, then there's seriously something wrong with this religion. There is an underlying religious state(s) being created and willing to replace the unity and sovereignity of the state. We would do this country a favour to wake up as soon as possible.

I like your post and I agree with it and hope ever...

2006-04-17T15:53:00.000+02:00

I like your post and I agree with it and hope every Muslim or religious person's attitude would be the same. However I have to disagree with one major point. The history of Islam is full of violence, built on ghazawat and tribal mentality. I'm not a Muslim and neither am I Chritian or a religious person. I have read the alternative history of Islam - the one they don't teach us in school (why do they teach us religion in school to begin with? It only creates more diversion in our society). People like Sayed AlQimny and Farag Fouda have repeatedly pointed this alternative history out - only to be met by a life-ending Azharic death sentence for the second, and a fundmaentalist death threat to the first, ending his career. If your religion says that different people from yourself are kafara and that a person who decides to leave this religion should be killed, then there's seriously somthing wrong with this religion. There is an underlying religious state(s) being created and willing to replace the unity and sovereignity of the state. We would do this country a favour to wake up as soon as possible.

Good read!!!I´ve borrowed some quotes...

2006-04-17T14:31:00.000+02:00

Good read!!!

I´ve borrowed some quotes...